We asked the NWT’s senior envoy to Ottawa: what are we getting?

Joe Dragon is the NWT’s man in Ottawa. He is paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to “foster strong relationships” with the federal government. How’s that going?

Dragon and NWT Premier RJ Simpson answered our questions on Tuesday, at the end of a year in which the territory’s biggest projects were overlooked by Prime Minister Mark Carney’s new Major Projects Office.

The GNWT says Dragon’s salary as senior envoy to Ottawa is in the highest deputy ministers’ pay band, sitting at between $261,000 and $327,000 annually.

If Dragon is paid at the top end of that scale and all benefits are included, Simpson has previously said, the cost of employing him is $440,000 a year. (The GNWT on Tuesday refused to disclose his precise salary and Simpson, in our interview, said he was not sure how much Dragon is paid.)

Critics like Yellowknife Centre MLA Robert Hawkins say the stated salary bracket doesn’t represent value for money. Hawkins has also said it’s not clear to him how Dragon’s performance is supposed to be measured.

While Dragon’s work has been the subject of occasional questions in the legislature, the job hasn’t otherwise received significant coverage. This week’s broadcast marked his first interview with Cabin Radio about the role. (The GNWT asked that Simpson also take part.)

Dragon was previously the principal secretary in Simpson’s office. The premier said he believes his appointment of Dragon to the envoy position – which did not exist until earlier this year – is working out.

“We’re still figuring out what this role is. I always evaluate: am I getting any value from this?” Simpson said. “And I do find a lot of value.”

Dragon said his experience in territorial and federal governance is helping the NWT make progress in Ottawa.

“I think we’ve made some strides,” he said. “We’ll see how 2026 goes, but I’m very optimistic it’ll be a good year for us.”

Below, read the full transcript of our interview. You can also hear the interview on Cabin Radio from 10-11am on Wednesday, December 10, with a podcast to follow.

This interview was recorded on December 9, 2025. The transcript has been lightly edited for clarity.

Ollie Williams: Joe, I don’t think many people understand what you do. With a few specific examples, can you walk me through some of the things you’ve been doing in the past year?

Joe Dragon: For sure. I’ll take you through this week as an example.

I met with a director from the National Research Council. They’re doing an Arctic and Northern Challenge program. I used to sit on their board, and so I was just trying to touch base with them, trying to get more northern representation on that committee that’s doing projects in the North.

I met with President Kelly McLeod and President Michael Greenland from the Gwich’in, who are in town doing meetings. I also met with Ɂekw’ahtı̨dǝ́ Danny Gaudet. He’s doing meetings here and we’re having a meeting over at Employment and Social Development Canada on Indigenous training programs that he’s looking to do on housing.

Later on this week, Minister Wawzonek comes into town. I’m going to join her in a meeting with Minister Alty. On Friday, I’m meeting with a Wilfrid Laurier prof. I met some folks at the Canadian Science Policy Conference and they do a program where science meets Parliament. One of the things that we talked about at that function was: why don’t we do northern science meets Parliament? So we can get more of a northern influence on the science that’s happening in the North when parliamentarians make decisions.

The weeks vary based on when people are in town, but my role is really to advocate for the GNWT priorities and work with Indigenous leadership to do that as well.

How do you split your time between Ottawa and the NWT?

Joe Dragon: I go back and forth. I’m trying to be here in Ottawa when Parliament’s sitting. We have more access, we have a little bit more mobility in terms of responsiveness if people need something.

I’m trying to get back to the North as well when we have Indigenous bilaterals, for example. If Parliament’s not sitting here, I would be in Yellowknife doing stuff in Yellowknife with session and that sort of thing.

Premier, there are people heading to Ottawa from the NWT government, from Indigenous governments, a lot of the time. There are frequent interactions between NWT leaders of some description and people in Ottawa. What is your rationale for having an envoy be part of that? What is that adding that couldn’t be accomplished just by those people having those meetings?

RJ Simpson: Ottawa was a bit of a mystery to me before this government. We have relationships with the officials who our officials talk to, and we get to hear from them and their take on things. And we have relationships with the ministers’ offices. But there’s a lot more going on in Ottawa that we’re not necessarily aware of, and [we now have] someone there on a daily basis hearing from not just the people who are on the NWT file but in general, so we understand the tenor of the town. Are the things we are doing making an impact in Ottawa? Are they being noticed? Because one of the primary things we need to do is stay on their minds. It’s easy to forget about the NWT.

I know every time there’s an event in Ottawa on anything related to the North – or even critical minerals or whatever the case is, something we’re interested in – Joe can attend those and now there’s a presence of the NWT. So we know what’s going on, we know what’s being said. We get ideas about things we should be doing in Ottawa, perhaps. He can make connections with other folks there.

One of the things I really wanted to do this term was not just get down to Ottawa and educate federal ministers, but work on educating the people who are handing those federal ministers the policies in the first place. I’ve been trying to get in front of different think tanks and Joe has a lot of connections in academia, so it’s helped with that.

Supporting the Indigenous governments is a big thing as well. If the Indigenous governments benefit from funding from Ottawa, that benefits the whole territory. And so having Joe there, he understands the system in Ottawa, so he knows who the Indigenous governments need to talk to, to achieve their goal – and when they need to do that. The timing is important of these things. He can set up meetings, provide advice and things like that.

All of these are things that aren’t necessarily being done elsewhere. If we had a political party here, a lot of these functions would be taken up by that political party. But we don’t have that in the territory.

You mentioned it’s easy for Ottawa to forget about the NWT. I think an easy criticism some people would make here is that on the biggest line items over the past year, it looks like Ottawa kind-of has. When you look at the Major Projects Office, which has gone through two rounds of initiatives, there isn’t an NWT project on that top-tier list. Sure, there’s the Arctic Corridor on the second-tier list, but nothing on the top-tier list. The NWT doesn’t even have representation on the Indigenous advisory council to the Major Projects Office. That’s a flagship initiative of the federal government. The NWT isn’t represented. How do you respond to critics who say having an envoy didn’t deliver results there?

RJ Simpson: This new government is much different than the old government, I’ll put it that way. There is someone listening now.

The previous federal government didn’t really do a lot, didn’t even get another budget out. Parliament was basically stalled. It was the end of a long reign where there was not a focus on the North and I really didn’t expect that to change in the last moments. When Joe went down there, it was sort-of that time where we were discussing this around the election – so leading up to the election, knowing there would be a change in government. And initially, everyone expected a Conservative government, and so we wanted to have someone there to understand what was going on, on the ground. But having someone in Ottawa doesn’t necessarily mean we’re going to get on the major projects list.

That being said, I’m not at all concerned that we’re not on that major projects list, because we are getting a lot of support from the federal government. Minister Wawzonek went down to the Major Projects Office and had a meeting with the CEO, and they’re very interested in our projects and supporting us. And speaking with Minister LeBlanc, who heads that office, he said – to paraphrase – he understands we are not Alberta or Ontario and don’t have the capacity, necessarily, that those jurisdictions do to move some of these big things forward.

We are getting a lot of support despite the fact that we’re not on there. I’m very comfortable. In all the time I’ve been an MLA, this is the most comfortable I’ve been with our relationship with the federal government. I think it’s the strongest it’s been.

Did you select Joe initially for the role with a Conservative government in mind?

RJ Simpson: Well, we didn’t know what was going to happen. So it was unclear. It was prior to the election. We didn’t know what was going on. We just knew there was going to be a change.

You’ve previously said the envoy office’s performance will be partly evaluated according to funding commitments secured. Is there a total you can give us of where that stands so far?

RJ Simpson: No, I don’t have a total for you to point to. The role is very new. We’re still figuring out what this role is. I always evaluate: am I getting any value from this? Joe is in the premier’s office, so am I getting value? And I do find a lot of value.

When we go down, say, for Council of Leaders, we go there and then we just leave. Was that a successful trip? Are people still talking about it? We don’t know. Just getting that type of intel, I find valuable. “OK, we need to do more of this type of thing. We need to do less of this type of thing. We put effort into this, but it’s not working from what we’re hearing on the ground.”

I realize that things move slow in government. I’ve been patient and we’ve been cultivating that relationship. I’m hopeful. I’m confident it’s going to pay off.

Joe, what needs to happen from your perspective in 2026 for the envoy’s office to demonstrate its value to the NWT? What specific goals do you have for the next 12 months?

Joe Dragon: The big thing I want to be able to do is provide an on-the-ground type of presence here in Ottawa [where] the federal government knows we want to be good partners, providing good information.

We are one player in all the provinces and territories that are here in Ottawa trying to get things from the federal government. The reality is we don’t have a lot of people working in the federal government that are from the Northwest Territories. So that lens and understanding the North, understanding the value of programs? I think we’ve just got to keep on having that ongoing presence of being here and allowing the government to understand why we fit in with their priorities.

Looking ahead for 2026, of course we’re going to be looking at the major infrastructure projects. There’s been a lot of great conversation. As we are looking to access funds, we need to have good relationships with the ministers and departments that are doing this type of business because it’s big money, and they’re not going to put big money if they don’t understand why we need it. Those are the big ones.

We’ve also been looking at a mineral tax credit that we’ve been trying to do for a number of months with all three territories that I think makes really good sense.

Looking at climate change and being able to look at adaptation in the North, and that can fuel other conversations on infrastructure, being able to support adaptive infrastructure for the North, or looking at hazard mapping, all kinds of different things that we can do around climate change.

Another big one that I hear all the time, and I hear it with chiefs coming in, is housing. This week, I went to breakfast with the DM of housing, a former colleague. I worked here in Ottawa for 13 years so now, having these relationships – being able to put on the radar that we have these needs in the North and being able to supply information that justifies it – that’s the big thing that I’ll be doing in 2026.

Premier, your biggest critic in the House on this is Robert Hawkins, the Yellowknife Centre MLA, particularly in relation to the money being spent on the job. I believe the top end of that is a little over $400,000 a year. How much is this costing the GNWT a year to have this role?

RJ Simpson: We have an office in Ottawa. We have a lease there for another probably six, seven years. And we actually had someone down there who just retired earlier this year. Now Joe is in that office. When we go down there, there’s actually someone in that office. They have the keys. They can host Indigenous governments when they come down, so there’s that offsetting as well. It’s not one big, giant additional expense.

But that being said, we are a very small government and sometimes you need some bodies to go out and do things. What Joe is doing down in Ottawa? I do find value in it, and I think the Indigenous governments find a lot of value in it as well. If they had to go hire consultants to do this work, it would be a lot more expensive. I’m appreciative that we can actually help provide them with that service, which in turn helps the public government and helps us. I think it’s good value for money.

Joe has a lot of experience in the federal government, in the Department of National Defence for example, in a bunch of these departments that are and could be very critical to the future of the territory. Understanding those processes is important as well.

I do see a lot of value. There are always going to be criticisms of anything we do, especially in the premier’s office. That just comes with the territory.

And sorry, just to be clear, what is Joe’s salary?

RJ Simpson: I’m not sure. We’d have to go look online. I think it was probably in the House, I tabled something.

Context: In the legislature in May this year, Simpson said Dragon’s salary range as senior envoy was between $261,000 and $327,000, and the annual cost rises to $440,000 if the senior envoy is paid at the top end of the scale and benefits are included.

You gave a salary range. I’m just wondering if you’re able to give the specifics so we can be clear about that.

RJ Simpson: No, I don’t have the specific salary in front of me right now.

OK, so you’re not sure how much the envoy is paid. I recognize you’ve got a bracket there, but it’s a huge amount of money compared to your salary, it’s up there with the prime minister’s salary. It’s multiple times the salary of virtually any human being in the NWT. How did you research that figure? How did you decide that this is what this is worth?

RJ Simpson: So we hired on a principal secretary, and there’s basically a standard principal secretary contract that has been used. And so that’s the contract that was used.

It was pre-existing, you took it off a shelf, and that was the salary that was associated with it?

RJ Simpson: Yeah. Go online to the GNWT website and there’s a principal secretary job description, and there’s a salary on there and everything. So it’s basically a continuation of what that role has always been.

Is there a set term, or is this an appointment until a premier, or you as a premier, decide to change it?

RJ Simpson: Joe is any like a principal secretary. They serve at the pleasure, serve with pleasure is what it’s called. So that’s the same with the employees in every political office, every minister’s direct employees. It’s the same terms.

And is it your intention that this is a permanent office now, that the NWT always has someone in this role?

RJ Simpson: I mean, it’s working for me. We’ll see what the next premier thinks about it. The situation could be different. There’s a lot of different factors. I can’t see what’s going to happen a couple years in the future, and what someone else potentially might want to do.

Joe, I want to give the last word to you on this. I recognize it’s awkward having your salary talked about by people in the same room, and I apologize for that. But at the same time, it’s important. It’s a lot of money that the territory is spending on this. I’m sure, from your perspective, you have a view on what message you want to give to residents of the NWT about the work you’re doing, why it’s worth that, and what you hope to bring back for them in return. What would you say to people?

Joe Dragon: I look at it as the experience that I bring to this role.

I’ve worked in government for over 30 years. I’ve had executive positions in government – not only the federal government but also the territorial government as a deputy minister for environment and climate change as well as deputy minister for infrastructure. I was an associate professor at Wilfrid Laurier University. All those things I bring into the picture of being able to promote the North.

The nice thing about being in this position is that when I took the role with the premier as his principal secretary, I was deeply involved in setting the priorities of the government. Now what I find is based on having that experience and being here in Ottawa, I’m looking for synergies of how the federal government is trying to achieve priorities and how we can maximize our benefit from that.

And I think the relationships? They’re huge here in Ottawa. If we only just pop in, pop out, they forget about us very quickly. We’re just one meeting. And I think the opportunity to build those relationships with ministers and Indigenous governments – you know, just last week I was with the Salt River First Nation chief and met with the ADM and DG responsible for housing on reserve. She’s never had a meeting like that. So what’s the value of that?

I think having the opportunity to be able to promote the interests of the GNWT and Indigenous governments in Ottawa continues to be an area that needs to be pursued, and we’ve just got to keep on promoting why we need these things in the North.

I appreciate the opportunity to be able to do it. I think we’ve made some strides. We’ll see how 2026 goes, but I’m very optimistic it’ll be a good year for us.